Putting a Period on It

I want to outline what I believe and have concluded on my journey while writing this blog. I just want to sum it all up and "put a period on it," as the saying goes. Note: I will most likely at this point only be writing on my blog occasionally, as news comes out regarding the subject of gays and Christians and as the subject of gay marriage comes up in politics and on our ballots. Or I may choose to share some personal spiritual lessons as they happen in my life. But at this time I don't think I have much more to say on the subject of gay Christians than what I will be writing below, I feel like I am starting to just repeat myself. So here it goes...

My concluding thoughts:

The Bible does say that the homosexual sex act itself, not the person, is a sin.

Being a homosexual/ gay person does not mean that person is also engaging in the homosexual sex act. Think of it this way, would you still be heterosexual if you were not having sex? yes... you would. A person cannot repent of being gay, that is who they are.

Expecting people that are not saved to behave like a Christian before they come to the point of salvation doesn't work. We need to love our neighbors as ourselves, is what the Bible teaches, and that includes saved and non-saved people, gay or straight.

Conviction is the work of the Holy Spirit, it is not your job or my job to change the hearts of people and to transfer our convictions to them. We can only share our point of view and how we came to the conclusion of our own convictions, live by example and live by our own convictions. The Bible supports this and is clear that not every Christian has the same level of conviction about every subject. That is why there are different denominations, different ways of worship, etc. What is clear is the route to salvation, who God is, and who Jesus is and what he did for us on the cross, and how we should treat each other (with love, just as we should love God with all we are). Those are the points that unite us as Christians, the creed that we all agree on and abide by. Also, Christians are at different points along their path, and what one is convicted of on day one of being a Christian and year 50 are completely different. God leads each one of us on our own path, and those of us farther along on our journey may need to be a little more understanding of the ones who "aren't there yet."

I believe some gay men and women will be convicted to live a celibate and single life, others will be convicted to abstain from the sex act itself but not be convicted to leave their partner, and others will be convicted to marry someone of the opposite sex because their lifestyle was a way to rebel against God, not about being inherently gay. Others will only be convicted that they need to be married (or in a civil union), in a monogamous and committed relationship, in order to have sex. Convictions of each individual will fall in a different place, and we cannot assume that only one of the above paths is the correct path for EVERY gay person who becomes a Christian. We should support each person's path as they seek to walk in the light of God's law and be obedient to His commands, even if that looks a little different on each person. I cannot even start to understand what it must be like to be gay and to become saved and how I would change my life due to my newly found salvation. I have no idea what God would call me to do. And I do believe that the individuals heart felt convictions will have a lot of weight with God on judgment day.

Judgment is God's job, not yours. People will be judged for their sins and behaviors by God, not you. Living by your convictions has a lot to do with how you will be judged. (There is a perfect example given by the Apostle Paul; when he wrote about eating meat offered to idols. Those that ate meat offered to idols, when they believed it was a sin, just brought judgment on themselves. Those that ate the same meat with a clear conscience would not be judged for doing so. But those that did not feel that conviction should not practice eating meat offered to idols in the presence of those that did feel it was a sin. It was better to not practice that religious freedom openly in their brother's presence as to not cause a brother to stumble.) This is why I write on my blog about these things openly but do not go parading around my church on a soap box about how gays should be allowed in our church and why, or my thoughts on gay marriage. I understand there are people who are convicted differently than I am on the subject. God has brought to me gay Christian friends that needed someone like me, a straight married Christian woman, to understand their point of view and to be accepted and not shamed in the church. Perhaps that is my calling, the role God has given me in life. If my blog changes anyone's mind along the way, provides any enlightenment to someone, than so be it. May God's will be done and may my mind be changed by the working of the Holy Spirit if I have come to the wrong conclusions. I do not wish to "test God" or spit in the face of His Holy Word. I do believe God has been showing me that I am on the right path by confirmations along this journey of mine. And that is all I can say about it at this time. If my mind is changed in the future and I am corrected in my heart's convictions by the Holy Spirit I will let you all know.

The Bible does not support the idea of same-sex marriage. The Biblical outline for marriage, the ideal scenario, is that it is between a man and a woman. Divorce and remarriage is a sin. Jesus declared it to be so, even though divorce had been allowed in Old Testament law by God. Jesus made it clear that you only marry once and if divorced do not remarry anyone else or you are committing adultery. That means there are plenty of sinners out there, gay or straight.

The church has continued to allow divorce and remarriage and offer grace to God's children. This is in light of individuals circumstances and in light of the grace that we know God so freely bestows on us once we are saved. People do not always live up to the ideal model of marriage that the Bible has given us, just as we don't live up to being perfect in any other way. Therefore we have seen fit to offer forgiveness to believers for the sin of divorce and remarriage, even though Jesus stated firmly that it is a sin to do so.

I speak of divorce and remarriage because I think that this allowance of the "less than ideal" marriage model in the church, this type of thinking and extension of grace, can be extended to gay Christians as well. These are my personal thoughts on the subject, I am not saying I have Bible verses to back me up on this. I know this will not be the conviction of every heart of every believer out there, but there are those in Christian circles that agree with me. (And again, we need to be wary of our convictions, how we live them out and how we act in front of others with our convictions. Its a fine line, a balancing act.) What I think would work is this: allow in our law civil unions between any two consenting adults, whether they be a man and a woman, two men, or two women. Then, keep the definition of "marriage" as a spiritual institution, a ceremony performed within the church. This is what I would call "separation of church and state." What then would happen is this; every couple would be required by law to have a "civil union" but the religious ceremony of "marriage" would be optional. One would only be considered "married" by definition if they opted to have a ceremony performed by a pastor in a church. This way the legal protection would be there for gay and straight couples equally, and those churches that are convicted that marriage is only meant to be between a man and a woman could continue to perform the religious ceremony of marriage between only men and women and refuse to perform that ceremony for gay couples. Churches that choose to perform the marriage ceremony between gay people would be acting on their own convictions and not doing anything illegal, but allowed to act on their own convictions. Therefore in my own case: my husband and I would have been required by law to have the legal paperwork filed for a civil union, signed by a judge, and then we would have had the marriage ceremony performed as well by a Pastor (as we did) as a religious act.

I believe marriage is a contract between two people and God. It is not something I take lightly. You swear before God to love each other until death separates you. You make promises to each other and to God, you are bound by God to those promises not by man. It actually upsets me to see non-Christian people go through the ceremonial process of marriage in a church when they have no idea how serious of a contract that is! I would much rather they go down to a court house and get married that way than to "put on a show" for tradition's sake, just to wear a white dress and prance down the aisle like its some sort of fairytale. We are sold as little girls this idea of the white dress, the little chapel, the flowers, the cake, and everything else that we consider a "traditional wedding" as a right of passage. But what we are not taught are the spiritual implications. I probably am swimming upstream with my ideas on this. I don't think Hollywood is going to stop turning out movies that are based on these ideas as the ultimate dream ending to the boy meets girl stories. And the industry is so HUGE for white weddings that I don't think that anyone will be jumping on my band wagon anytime soon. Unless all the hoopla can be transferred to the civil union ceremonies performed by judges, without all the Spiritual ceremonial wording that I hold so dear to my heart, which I suppose is possible.

There you have my conclusions and thoughts and convictions of my heart. I write about them freely here on my blog to be discussed and to be pondered. I don't go around shouting these thoughts out at the top of my lungs in my church, but if asked directly my thoughts on these subjects I will speak freely and have a civil conversation with that person. I stand by and live by my convictions. If you don't agree with me and you are convicted otherwise I respect where you are coming from, please allow me some respect as well. And if you are a straight Christian and one day come across a gay Christian please do not start beating them over the head with what are called the "clobber verses" in the Bible. Approach them with love and respect as you share your heart's convictions. If they don't match yours then continue to pray for them, but always accept them into your church and into your lives as brothers and sisters in Christ. Do not cast them out of your church, what good would that be doing them? And if you meet a non-Christian who is gay don't start with trying to change their sexual behavior, focus on bringing them to salvation, focus on showing them the love of Christ that you have been shown. Let God's Holy Spirit lead them to what they need to do, what behaviors need to stop and always support them in their journey towards this enlightenment, even if they aren't where you think they should be yet. God will get them where they need to be.

Christian Music Artist Out of the Closet

Here is a link to a good read on the coming out of Jennifer Knapp as a lesbian. I liked what she had to say during her interview, its a good read.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/music/interviews/2010/jenniferknapp-apr10.html

It is sad that people on the outside looking in so often can't reconcile the fact that someone can love a person of the same sex and at the same time can be a Christian. And it is sad that the person who is being scrutinized feels that they need to find a way to explain and justify themselves. They get it, that they can be both a Christian and Gay, just because others can't understand it doesn't mean it isn't possible.

Not much more to add to what Jennifer Knapp said, I would just read what she said in the article.

The Law of Attraction

Being "gay" is about attraction. It is not about a decision to participate in a sexual act. Homosexuality, being gay, is not about the sexual act. It is about who a person is. About something they can't change about them self... who they are attracted to. It's an innate thing. It's a genetically coded thing, like the color of our skin, our eye color, etc.

Is that the sin that the Bible is talking about? Who we are attracted to? No. Its about people who decided to participate in certain sexual acts, including the act of homosexual sex, and who did this in order to worship an idol or to worship the "created instead of the creator." They were people that were defying the laws of God on purpose, with decision, who may or may not have been "gay" as I am describing it. They were participating in sexual acts for the purpose of worshiping something other than God. Yes, it was a choice for them to participate in those acts. Yes, it was an act of defiance against God. Yes, it was a sin what they were doing.

STOP defining the word "homosexual" as the act and we are getting somewhere. People can't seem to separate the two. Homosexual has to mean someone is participating in the physical act or else the person isn't homosexual. Well, that doesn't make sense. If I stop having sex am I any less a heterosexual person? I am a heterosexual whether or not I am having sex. Before I ever had sex I was a heterosexual. When I was a teenager and found myself attracted to boys and dated boys and kissed boys, I was a heterosexual. I was always attracted to boys and never found myself drawn to girls in a sexual way, or attracted to girls in the way I am attracted to boys. Yes, I think girls are pretty and nice to look at, we are amazing creatures. But I don't want to kiss a girl or have sex with a girl. I wanted to have sex with boys, but I didn't (I waited for marriage), but I STILL was a heterosexual... was I not? The desire was there and the attraction was there, so therefore I was (and still am) a heterosexual.

Replace the word heterosexual with homosexual and you have the same concept. That is what and who gay people are. It doesn't mean they are having sex, it means they are attracted to the same sex. It wasn't a decision to be drawn to the same sex, it wasn't something they sought after as a "lifestyle choice" is wasn't a way to defy God or to worship idols.

Now, as far as me being a heterosexual woman attracted to men, and wanting to someday have sex with a man that would be my husband, what did I do with my sexual attraction that was considered godly? I waited until marriage to fulfill my sexual desires fully (take it beyond kissing and groping ... eh hem) and that is what God desires for us. To wait to express our self sexually to our spouse. That is where sex becomes a holy act. When it is mated with Love and marriage, the sex act is spiritual, it is right, it is wholesome. I ask then, why can't this be the case with sex between two gay people? If they fell in love and waited until marriage to express their love sexually would it not be the same as what I did?

Turn it around for a moment. If I was to have sex outside of marriage, before I ever met my husband, and I slept around in a series of monogamous relationships would it not be sin? Yes, of course. So the same applies to gay people. We are on the same playing field and the same set of rules apply. What is sinful for me as a heterosexual person is sinful for anyone who is homosexual.

Where the sin is, that is where we need to look. What is the sin? Being gay? Being attracted to someone of the same sex? Kissing someone of the same sex? Loving someone of the same sex? Marrying the person I fall in love with that is of the same sex? Having sex with the person I marry? No, these are not the sins. These are not the people we should to be condemning to Hell. In fact, its not our job to condemn anyone to Hell. Only God knows who is destined for Hell and who is destined for Heaven.

Why are we using the word of God to separate people of the gay community from the church? To keep them shut out of communion with other children of God? If they are gay and a Christian then that is what we are doing. And yes, it is possible to be both gay and a Christian. You probably know someone who is. You may not even realize it. And what is the message we are sending the unsaved gay community? To be saved they must push aside their attractions and "decide" to be straight or be celibate? Is that the gospel message? I don't think so. God says everyone has the ability to come to the cross and be saved. Jesus died for everyone, heterosexual or homosexual. Its not a requirement to be a heterosexual to be saved. And we shouldn't make it a requirement to stop being a homosexual to continue your walk as a Christian. To tell people that there is something insufficient in their salvation experience if God has not cast that desire out of them, oh how horribly wrong that is. Can you change yourself from being a heterosexual? Can you stop loving your spouse? Could you decide to be celibate for the rest of your life when you find a sexual relationship with your spouse so fulfilling and natural and acceptable in your marriage? That is what many straight Christians are expecting of our fellow gay Christian brothers and sisters. And I think its time to stop.

What is Truth?

I learned something recently that is very interesting, and here I thought I knew everything about the Scriptures there was to know (haha, not really). Jesus said, "... for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." John 18:37

I always wondered what the "truth" was that Jesus was referring to. (Even Pilate posed that quesion, "What is truth?" in the next verse: see John 18:38). I mean, I assumed it had to do with the Bible, what I consider truth. But what was "THE Truth" that he came to testify to. Someone said that if one is testifying you think of a court room. And why would you be testifying? To defend something on trial. In this case Jesus was defending the truth. And the truth is GOD! God is truth. I should have thought of that specifically myself. I know the Bible says God is love, but I didn't think about the fact that anything that is true is from and of God. God's very essence is truth. He can't be anything but truth. He cannot lie. Everything that exists comes from God. Truth, I always knew, is not abstract. Its not a perception or a feeling, it is concrete. What is more concrete than God? He does not waver, He does not change, He cannot act or behave in a way that is contrary to His nature. It makes perfect sense. Its so obvious, and yet so profound at the same time.

Jesus points out that everyone who is on the side of truth listens to him. So that means, if you are on God's side you will listen and pay attention to what Jesus said. And since Jesus was God incarnate this makes absolute sense. There are many things in the Bible that don't clarify things that we all debate about and wonder about. It doesn't spell out all the answers, although we wish it did. But the truth is there, the essence of who God is can be found in the Scriptures. When Jesus pointed out the greatest commandments are loving God with all your heart, soul, and mind and the second is loving your neighbor as yourself then I see that as what is most important to God. That is straight from the Lord's mouth. Its how I filter all my actions and thoughts and why I would rather err on the side of love than on the side of judgment.

That is why I love GLBT people and invite them to partake in the gift of Salvation Jesus offers and to walk in the light of God's love as they are. If I am wrong in anything I have loved too much and not judged enough. But I think that God is pleased with that. I know He sees my heart and knows that I seek to obey Him and seek the truth. I am not siding with Gay people to be popular. It may be the popular thing to do in Hollywood, to support Gay marriage and to have Gay friends, but believe you me... it is not the popular thing to do as a straight Christian woman and as a member of a primarily Republican, conservative church. If I wanted to do what is easy and "popular"... for me, that would be to side with my church and tell Gays that they need to change in order to be Christians. Or that after they became saved they had to stop loving whom they love and either be celibate or marry someone of the opposite sex. But I refuse to take that stand and to agree with that line of thinking. It actually would be easier for me to do so, but I just can't. My conscience won't allow me. It makes no sense at all to me #1 to a think that being GLBT is a choice #2 that so many people that are saved and GLBT just don't have enough faith or are not claiming the grace of God to be "freed" from their "sinful desires" #3 that its right to force celibacy on any group of people (that is a spiritual gift given to some, not to all.) #4 to force people into "changing" and marrying someone of the opposite sex when it is unnatural for them to do so. None of that makes sense to me, and it is what so many Christians and churches expect. But what makes sense to me I suppose they see as nonsense. But, again, I would rather believe the way I do and err on the side of love than to alienate the GLBT community. I just wish I could find a way to change everyone else minds to see what I see... it just makes so much more sense to me!

What the Lord Says (part 2)

I first want to apologize for not writing sooner my response to Philip Liebenberg's sermon as I had promised to do. I wanted to look up some Scripture references and digest the information and elaborate on why I think what he said is valid and something for us all to ponder. What happened is I found out I was pregnant December 12th and had very bad morning sickness and major fatigue and am just now feeling more energetic and finally not feeling sick 24/7. So, while it is good news that I am pregnant, it did slow me down from being able to spend time in studying my Bible and writing on my blog as I had wanted. Every time my 2 year old went to bed or took a nap I did too, so my waking hours were spent caring for her and taking care of the house as best I could. My husband was gone from Dec 14th until Jan 18th (he is a pilot) and even though this past month he has been home I still have been sick and he has been taking over many of the duties of taking care of the house and cooking and caring for our 2 year old. This being said, I am back to write you now about my thoughts regarding Philip Liebenberg's sermon.

Philip Liebenberg mentioned several things in his sermon, "The Lord Says in His Word," that I would like to specifically address and expand on.

A. He said, its important to understand the culture, the thoughts and origin of the text to understand the Bible. "Literal interpretation of the Bible is not correct."

I believe he is correct in saying this. If you were to look at the Levitical laws layed out in the Old Testament you would need to understand that this law was given to the Jews, by God, as a way to separate them from the other tribes and to increase their number/ population. For example, it is a sin for a man to spill his "seed" on the ground during intercourse. To not allow the possibility for procreation to happen was considered a sin. Catholics still follow this policy to this day, it is considered a sin to use condoms or birth control. Another interesting fact is that in Biblical days a woman was considered "unclean" curing her menstration and was unclean for a period of time after her menstration ended (See Leviticus 20:18 for example). What happened then is that the only time it was acceptable for a man to lay with his wife was when she was her most fertile! Wow, God wasn't fooling around. He really wanted the Jewish people to increase in their numbers and dominate over the rest of the tribes and nations.

Today we are given a different commission, The Great Commission: Matthew 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. " We are to increase our numbers in a Spiritual sense. We are to add to the number of God's children by bringing others to Christ. There are other reasons that make more sense for us today to not just continually bear children. It makes sense in today's economy to consider how many children you are able to support. If you are able to support 4, 6, 8, or even 12 kids and have the room in your home for that many kids... then go ahead and procreate away! But, however, if having more than one or two kids will bring you to financial ruin is it really prudent to live your life this way? Either abstain from intercourse from your wife or prepare to have another kid? Don't we all agree by this point that sex in marriage is more about a deeper connection you seek to enhance in your marriage and about becoming "one flesh" rather than procreation alone?

B. Philip said, "... we realize that we don't have to apply certain statements anymore. We debate certain rules right out of 'our times.' This is 100% fine and correct. BUT what is not right, is the fact that we do not act consistently.

Here is an example. Consider these two verses: Leviticus 19:19c "Do not wear clothing woven of two kind of material." Deuteronomy 22:10 "Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together." But today we wear mixed materials, we do not consider it a sin. The point is that we can't just apply the Bible's words straight across the board in a literal manner. We have to understand the context and the people and the times of the day when we read the Bible. We consider it permissible to wear mixed material clothing and it is not considered a sin. And there are verses that say to kill people when they break the Levitical laws. And we aren't stoning people for certain behaviors now a days. We may still think of certain behaviors as sinful, but we aren't killing anyone over it. There are just some things that are not reasonable to apply to us today, in this time, in our culture, and with our current knowledge and modern laws. It's not prudent and it isn't justified. So why do we apply some things so adamantly and not others? Why do some rules apply still and not others?

C. Philip says, "Christians are inconsistent. The Bible forbids marriage to a second wife. But we are okay with 2nd marriages." And then Philip adds that gay Christians do the same thing, "... justify gay marriages. But then we stop right there." Sometimes we take the Word literally and other times ignore what it teaches. "If you believe the words in the Bible to be the spoken words of God, you have to take the gay texts literally as a command from God." He continues later saying, "The Bible does not like sex between people of the same sex and that's that. That is how Israel felt about it."

Romans 7:2-3 Addresses this topic of remarriage. And Jesus very boldly stated in Matthew 5:32, "But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery." Yet we are okay today with divorced man or woman remarrying and do not call them sinners and kick them out of our churches.
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Philip brings home his point beautifully. "My theological argument is that I read that command against being gay in the light of their knowledge vs. the knowledge we have today... That it's just as bad for gays to be alone as for straights."

This fits very well with what Jesus and Paul say about celibacy. Jesus talks about people that have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven, in Matthew 19:11-12. This refers to someone who has chosen celibacy, like a monk or a nun today, or was used to describe some Eunuchs of Biblical times who chose to not marry. And Paul talks about staying single to further God's kingdom, but not to do so if you are burning with passion to have sex, in which case he says you are better to marry. That can be found in 1 Corinthians 7:1-9 where Paul addresses the subject of marriage. Not to say that the Apostle Paul would consider marriage between two men or two women acceptable. As Philip said, it is accurate to read the Bible in the terms of their beliefs of the day and their convictions. Paul, if asked today, would not condone same sex marriage. Based on the fact of who he was, a Pharisee, a Jew... no, he would not say that it is okay. But today we should be able to acknowledge that forcing people into celibacy just because they are gay is not right. We ought to know better by now that people are not making a choice to be gay. If it were that simple than many Christian gays would simply choose to not be gay anymore and change their lifestyle.

I say consider this, if we were as a church to not consider it a sin to be gay and were to love and accept our children and fellow Christians when they came to us and said they realize they are gay, then there would be no need for anyone to "choose to be gay" as a form of rebellion... If there are people out there that are actually choosing to be gay (which many still believe and credit that to the work of Satan). If they are out there, and we don't see it as a choice but the way you are born, then those that have been living a lie and living that way to simply "rebel" would no longer have a reason to do so. Take away the taboo and the shame and the problem will disappear. I think we are creating more of a problem then actually exists by continuing to be adamant and say that gays need to repent and choose not to partake in homosexual behavior anymore. Pushing people to either be celibate or pressuring a gay person to marry a straight person is not the answer.

I have mentioned before the book "Exchanging the Truth of God for a Lie" by Jeremy Marks before but it is worth mentioning again. Marks ran an ex-gay ministry in the 80's and for 20 years tried to rehabilitate gay men and help them enter into heterosexual marriages. He realized this simply was not working. Even though he himself looks like the poster boy for how ex-gay ministries work, he is still married to a woman, he has admitted that forcing gay men to marry straight women is not fair to either partner. Interesting how the "poster boy" wouldn't recommend this to anyone else. He admits they are the exception, not the rule. He has come to the same conclusion that Philip has, that it is not good for gay people to be alone, to be withheld love of a life partner, marriage. That is the conclusion I have come to as well and I still believe, even though the Bible doesn't not tell us marriage is okay for people of the same sex, that marriage should be allowed for those that want to be married and are gay. Allowing the gay community to do that would alleviate all the problems associated with homosexual acts, the fact that it is outside of marriage alone is a problem. Any sexual act that is outside of marriage is not condoned by Biblical standards. And again, although I realize the Bible would not say "it's okay for a man to lie with a man, as long as they love each other and are married," I also realize that this is because of when the Bible was written, and what the culture understood of that act. We have come so far in so many other aspects over the history of the church; slavery, prejudice against blacks, sex as an act of love not just procreation, why can't we cross this final gap that is so destructive and causing more division than bringing people to the point of salvation? What is more important? For gay people to stop loving other gay people or for gay people to be welcomed with open arms into the family of God and to feel loved and accepted finally by fellow straight Christian brothers and sisters and, most importantly, God?

Thank you for reading my blog, hope that gave you some food for thought.

What the Lord Says

A friend translated this sermon for me and I want to share it with all of you, with my comments afterwards.

"The Lord says in His Word..."

(What is wrong with this statement?)

Philip Liebenberg - The Chapel

Copyright© Philip Liebenberg 2009

The Bible as the written Word

•It's not God's own words. Even when the Bible let's God speak in the first person, it is people talking on behalf of the Lord.

•It's the sword of the Spirit. The Spirit speaks through the words in the Bible (it only becomes the voice of God/words of God when the Holy Spirit, after proper study of the text, ministers something to you.) Literal interpretation of the Bible is not correct. Paul said to Timothy that he should the divide the word correctly. Studying the culture, the thoughts and origin of the text helps us understand the statements in the Bible.

What do we modern Christians typically do with the Bible?

•We think logically and from our own spiritual convictions about the way the people and the times of the Bible were different than our times and we realize that we don't have to apply certain statements anymore. We debate certain rules right out of "our times". This is 100% fine and correct. BUT what is not right, is the fact the we do not act consistently. We don't apply this to all the statements in the Bible. In other words, we stand with one foot in Fundamentalism and with the other in the Post modern era, where we realize that we have to do with ancient Israel and that we have to dig and study (and most importantly listen to the Holy Spirit!) to find how everything applies to our times.

Just see how inconsistent we Christians of today are:

•A) The Bible forbids a person to marry a second time with anybody but your original
spouse. Except for the Catholics, heterosexual Christians justify second marriages quite comfortably. They don't take Jesus’ command very seriously. But that is where they stop with their "liberal" outlook on the Scriptures. They don't need to go further. For the
rest..they take the Bible as "The Words of God".

•B) The gay Christians go further: we justify gay marriages. But then we also stop right there. For the rest we are also fundamentalists and talk about the other statements in the Bible as "The Words of God."

"TheLord says in His Word"

•We must stop using this phrase if we want to be honest with ourselves! Every gay Christian living a gay lifestyle most learn to be consistent. If you believe the words in the Bible to be the spoken words of God, you have to take the gay texts literally as a command from God. I agree wholeheartedly with people that then tell us that we take some things literally and ignore other things. That we are selective. They are right. This is where I differ with many theologians over the gay texts. I realize more and more that the translation of those texts is not really a problem. The Bible does not like sex between people of the same sex and that's that. That is how Israel felt about it. The Bible definitely says "no" to that.

Granted: the Bible does not talk about monogamous gay relationships, but I can assure you that it would have been forbidden too, because they only believed in sex that brought forth children and that was between a man and a woman. My theology does not involve getting too technical over translations, but to look at the mindset of that time period. They did not know that all people are not heterosexual by nature. They thought that homosexuals "turned gay" in rebellion. Rebellion against their nature and against God. And that that rebellion made them spiritually blind.My theological argument is that I read that command against being gay in the light of their knowledge vs. the knowledge we have today. And with the belief that it does no harm if a person who is gay also finds love. That it's just as bad for gays to be alone as for straights. My heart still loves God, and I get to know Him better every day. The Holy Spirit in my heart has not at any time said to me that I should ignore my findings about being gay. Just as the Lord did not tell me the sun stood still just because Joshua said the sun stood still. I know the earth rotates around the sun and not the other way around as it says "in God's Word".

Practices that are Fundamentalist should be unlearned

One day in Welkom my head elder and I differed about something in the Bible. He then, without thinking it through well, said to me, "Pastor, I know I am right because my Bibles says I "must hold fast to what I have learned." I asked him where in the Bible it said that to him personally, because as far as I knew it was something Paul told Timothy. "Yes, pastor, but every word in the Bible is for me too," he answered full of bravado. I was dumbstruck.

That kind of Bible interpretation also shocked two people in my Bapsfontein congregation: their son died of a heart attack at the age of 13. They just could not accept it and stopped coming to church. When I talked to them, I found out that they were angry at God because "He lied in His Word." "The Lord says in His Word that the lifespan of man is 70 years and if he's strong, 80," they "quoted the Lord." I struggled long to bring them to the realization that that statement was not the Lord's, but of a Biblical author's general observation of the life expectancy of homosapiens. That's generalisation. That's not dogma. You cannot claim it from God like you can claim it as a clause from your insurance company.

This is my problem with fundamentalism: we "hold God to His Word." We quote with big ease text like: "God speaks the truth and fulfills His word", without taking the time to think about what that means. This does not mean that God will fulfill everything that is written in the Bible to you personally. One has to differentiate between what God said and what people observed in the Bible. God did not write the Bible and he can't be held accountable for everything little thing a human wrote in it. God is not the Bible. God is bigger than the Bible. God can do what He wants to. You can't hold him to anything that is written in the Bible. You must first ask His Spirit to teach you to put the statements in the Bible in context and secondly you must ask Him for specific guidance or "word" for your own situation.

Some people die from illness and others heal from that same illness. The reasons are many: God's will, positive thinking, a request that God would lengthen your life, medical personnel's expertise. Some people are okay with their lot and don't ask for healing. Some people believe they don't have the right to ask for healing. Sometimes the Lord let nature run it's course and someone goes to be with the Lord at a young age. Life is not simplistic. Don't let cheap answers or simplistic ideas about this type of thing take root in your mind.

"Praying, quoting and confessing the Word" has certain conditions:

•Realize that you can't "talk with God" when you confess texts over your life circumstances. You are quoting text that people wrote. You make sure you realize this when you encourage yourself with text verses. I would suggest that, as an example, you take David's Psalms as encouraging, exhorting thoughts and not as dogma. You must ask for the Lord's specific "word" regarding your circumstances. The Lord speaks to us all when we ask for insight or if we need promises. Get personal in your relationship with God and stick to what you believe He told your personally - not merely a text in the Bible. (The text must be divided correctly if you want it on your plate. In other words: what does the Holy Spirit say to me personally through this encouraging text? It can be something that you confess or that you stand on.)

•When my Dad received a visit from his pastor nine months before his death at 59, the pastor told him to stand on the healing texts in "God's word" for his healing. With that he added a prophecy: my dad would be completely healed of his emphysema and that he would be used mightily by God for an additional 20 years. And that was okay (that my Dad still died). What was not okay was this: a Fundamental pastor treated texts about disease and healing much too literally and also added false prophecy on top of that. And my dad clung to that prophecy. He prayed it. He confessed it. He quoted it as if God told it to him Himself. My dad did not talk with God, but to Bible texts and prophecy. People have to be very careful when they claim God said something. Even is if it's a Bible text. That text was written by a human, and under certain conditions. Get your own "word" from God directly. Individual Bible texts must be placed within the bigger picture. Always get the bigger picture when you're reading the Bible. And listen to God's voice. He speaks today in our hearts. He explains the Bible in our hearts so that we have greater insight and can interpret it more accurately.

I totally agree, the literalism and fundamentalism that exists in most Christians is harming so many people, either themself or the way they treat others. Its hard for people to get that concept. To read the Bible and think of who God is talking to, and why He said what He said, and what context, and what was the lesson, and what does it reveal about the nature of God? So many things to consider beyond the exact words. I find it difficult to claim certain text as "my verse" or a word from God to me, unless it was a general encouragement God meant to give to all of us.

I like how Philip approaches the Word of God and homosexuality. I often get the same message when I study the Bible... That in the day it was written, and considering the person that wrote it, homosexualtiy, in the context it is spoken of, is considered a sin. And marriage between two same sex people, where it is impossible to procreate, would never be accepted. But today we don't marry for that reason, we marry for companionship and love. And God is very clear in His teaching through Jesus and the Apostle Paul that being single and celibate is a spiritual gift. Definitely not something anyone should be forced into. So that is why I believe marriage for Gays is fine. And another reason for accepting homosexuals is that I know for the majority out there this is not a choice. It is a very few minority that have left ther heterosexuality for homosexuality due to a poor relationship or marriage with someone of the opposite sex, this I do not condone. And the best reason for accepting Gays, and believing they are capable of being a Chrsitian as well, is that Jesus came to die for everyone and calls all of us to love God and to love our neighbor and to not be the judge of people. Only the Holy Spirit can judge the hearts of men and call them to Himself and ultimately bring salvation, I can't do any of those things for anyone.

I will post in another entry the verses that Pastor Philip was referring to and how it supports his arguement and my beliefs and discoveries in my journey to understand why all Christians need to learn to love our fellow homosexual Christian brothers and sisters, minister to the unsaved homosexuals, and that homosexual Christians need to also adhere to the same standards for their life in Christ as I do, as a straight Christian. The dividing line should not be such a wide chasm between heterosexuals and homosexuals in the Christian realm and the church. This is why I started writing this blog, I feel passionate about this subject.

Not inspired

Its not that I haven't thought about Spiritual things or want to write about God, I just feel like I have covered it all before and don't know where to go from here.

Sorry my blog has been dry for a couple months.

I heard a good sermon today at church. Our Pastor is going through I John and that book is filled with calls for us to love God, to love Jesus... should inspire anyone to read that book. I may write a few things inspired from the book of I John in the Bible. Soon hopefully.

I hope everyone is doing well Spiritually. I know God loves you, I hope you feel that and are able to love Him back. His greatest commandment is "Love God with all your heart" that is it! It's not a command to jump through any kind of hoops or to do some crazy ritual to please Him, its just a command to love. The second to that is to love our neighbor, and that is everyone else in the world. It would be great if we could just get those two things straight in our life, wouldn't it? The world would be a better place is every person did just those two things.

Well, hope to be blogging again sometime soon and to inspire again.

God bless!